'Oh yeah, tough guy?' Victim spars with Trump lawyer Joe Tacopina in rapper A$AP Rocky's assault with a firearm preliminary hearing
Terell “A$AP Relli” Ephron testified Wednesday that the superstar rapper and boyfriend of Rihanna fired shots at him in Hollywood in November 2021.
A former friend of A$AP Rocky testified Wednesday that the rapper brandished a gun and fired at him during a meeting on a Hollywood street two years ago that he initially believed would end with them walking away “like brothers.”
“If it was to get to a fight, maybe it would be like something very light,” Terell “A$AP Relli” Ephron said.
Instead, Rocky fired three or four shots at Relli, he testified, one of which grazed three of his knuckles
“He shot and I felt, like, my hand hot,” Relli said. “It all looked like a movie, to be honest. It was fast.”
Relli spent about 3 1/2 hours on the witness stand Wednesday in a preliminary hearing that will decide if prosecutors have enough evidence to proceed with their assault case against the 35-year-old rapper, who recently had a baby with Rihanna and whose hits include the 2019 smash “Praise the Lord.”
Legal name Rakim Mayers, Rocky is charged with two counts of first-degree assault with a firearm for the Nov. 6, 2021, altercation with Relli, which was partially caught on surveillance video that was shown Wednesday in Los Angeles County Superior Court Judge Mary Lou Villar’s courtroom in Los Angeles.
Villar will decide if the case against will proceed after hearing more testimony on Nov. 20.
Relli was the only witness who testified on Wednesday, and he grew increasingly annoyed amid cross-examination from Rocky’s lawyer Joe Tacopina, the pugnacious New York attorney who represented former President Donald Trump in his defamation trial with columnist E. Jean Carroll and currently represents him in his New York state criminal case regarding hush money payments to adult film star Stormy Daniels.
“So, you went to the hospital for those scrapes on your knuckles?” Tacopina asked incredulously.
“Of course. My knuckles was in pain. You’d go to the hospital, too, if you got shot,” Relli answered.
As Tacopina reacted skeptically, Relli said, “Oh yeah, tough guy?”
“No, I’m not as tough as you,” Tacopina replied mockingly, adding something about Relli carrying guns before Judge Villar intervened.
“Counsel, I expect better of you,” the judge said.
Tacopina backed off.
“You’re right. You’re right,” he told the judge.
Relli was represented in court by Brown Rudnick LLP partners Benjamin Chew and Camille Vasquez, the same attorneys who represented Johnny Depp in his defamation trial against Amber Heard. They currently represent Relli in a defamation lawsuit against Rocky that was filed in September.
Filed in November 2022, Rocky’s criminal case could send him to prison if he’s convicted of either assault charge, and Tacopina signaled Wednesday that a plea deal is off the table and Rocky will take the case to a jury trial if Judge Villar allows it to proceed. He asked Villar to close the courtroom to the public, acknowledging the request was “extraordinary” but arguing it was justified because “there will be a trial, eventually.”
Deputy District Attorney Paul Przelomiec told Villar that Tacopina “is quoted extensively discussing their theory of this case.”
“I think it’s a little disingenuous to not allow the media now to hear from the witnesses themselves or to view the evidence, see the evidence,” Przelomiec said.
Judge Villar said her courtroom is “an open courtroom.”
“The court believes that the people have a right to see and observe everything that transpires … whether your client is somebody who is well known or an everyday person,” she said.
The evidence against Rocky includes two surveillance videos, one of which shows the beginning of Rocky physically confronting Relli close up and another that appears to show the men during the shooting but is grainy and distant. Both were shown in court on Wednesday, as was a photo of Terrell’s grazed knuckles, several photos and maps of the area where the shooting occurred and a series of text messages between Rocky and Terrell.
In one, Terrell wrote Rocky, “You so fucking fake it’s sad.”
It was Oct. 28, 2021, and Terrell was upset because he believed Rocky hadn’t followed through on his promise to pay for a dead friend Josh’s body to be flown home to New York.
One week later on Nov. 5, 2021, Relli said he was in his friend Jabari “A$AP Bari” Shelton’s car when Shelton took a call from Rocky. Shelton put the call on speaker phone, and Relli “out of nowhere” heard Rocky say “fuck … Relli.”
“I was gonna say something, but then Jabari stopped me from saying something and I heard the whole conversation,” Relli testified.
Relli said he messaged a friend of Rocky and told him, “I don’t give a fuck about this A$AP shit no more.”
ASAP stands for Always Strive And Prosper. Relli described it as “a conglomerate of young men have many different talents.” Relli and Rocky met when they attended the same high school in New York. Relli said they were “really cool” and “chilled all the time.”
“We had dreams, you know what I mean?” Relli testified Wednesday.
Relli said he always felt he could talk to Rocky even as Rocky’s fame grew. So when he awoke to several text messages and missed calls from Rocky and his friends on Nov. 6, 2021, about 9:30 p.m., he reached out.
Three texts from Rocky read:
“Wya?”
“Lets get to it”
“Stop duckin my calls”
Relli said he was still groggy from sleep when he called Rocky and heard him say, “Where you at?”
He testified Wednesday that Rocky sounded “slick.”
“Something about his voice just told me don’t give my original location,” Relli testified. Relli told Rocky he was at a different hotel, then texted him photos from the window to try to prove it. He said he agreed to meet with Rocky because he didn’t expect a physical fight.
“Rocky’s not a difficult person to talk to once you’re face to face,” Relli testified.
Rocky told Relli he’d meet him at the W hotel, but Terrell was actually at the Loews hotel, so Relli walked, then jogged, to the W to meet him. When he saw Rocky, he was “coming in hot” and accompanied by two other A$AP members, Illijah “A$AP Illz” Ulanger and Jamel “A$AP Twelvyy” Phillips.
He said Rocky asked him, “What now, pussy?”
That’s when Przelomiec, the prosecutor, played the first surveillance video, which shows Rocky and Terrell pushing each other in the lower right corner of the screen as Illz approaches. It doesn’t appear to show Rocky point the gun at Relli.
Relli testified Wednesday that Rocky grabbed his shirt collar, and he tried to push his hand down.
“What happened at that point?” Przelomiec asked.
“He pulled out a gun,” Relli answered.
“Who’s he?” Judge Villar asked.
“Rocky,” Relli answered.
“Did you see where he pulled the gun from?” Przelomiec asked.
“From his waistband,” Relli answered. He said Rocky pointed the gun in his stomach and said “I’ll kill you right now.”
“What was his tone when he said, ‘I’ll kill your right now’?” Przelomiec asked.
“Oh, he was angry,” Relli answered.
Relli said he told Rocky to shoot him and asked him “why you brought a gun if you’re not going to use it.” Relli testified that he didn’t have a gun on him because he doesn’t carry concealed weapons in states in which he doesn’t have a permit. (He has a permit in Florida but not California.)
He said the altercation “seemed like forever, but I’m pretty sure it was seconds.” Relli said Rocky put the gun away because people were in the area and started walking away. He said he also saw Jamel “A$AP Twelvyy” Phillips with a knife.
“I’m seeing red at this point. I just got a gun pulled on me, and now I’m seeing a knife,” Relli testified.
Relli said he told Rocky “how much he failed everybody, because nobody is brave enough to say what they feel about this man.” They were on Vista Del Mar in Hollywood when “Jamel kind of like jumped off the curb” and “Rocky turned around and shot at me.”
That’s when Relli testified that he felt his “hand hot.” He said he stood near Illz “to use him as a shield” from Rocky after the first shot.
“Were you intentionally putting Illijah between you and the defendant?” Przelomiec asked.
“Yes,” Relli answered.
Rellli said Rocky fired the gun “three or four” times.
“He was on my ass. He was trying to, like, shot me,” Relli answered.
Przelomiec displayed the photo of Relli’s hand with scraped knuckles. Relli said he ran from the scene, then reported the shooting to police on Nov. 8 after retaining a lawyer.
‘But that has nothing to do with a shooting’
Tacopina questioned Relli about retaining a lawyer in cross-examination, implying that Relli is simply seeking money from Rocky though a lawsuit and went to the hospital and police to assist in that. He began his cross by bluntly asking if Relli thinks Rocky disregarded his projects “because they weren’t any good?”
“I don’t know,” Relli answered.
He pushed back when Tacopina displayed his Instagram account.
“I don’t understand what are we showing my Instagram if I got shot?” Relli answered.
Tacopina showed a photo of Relli holding a big stack of cash in a car, then a photo on a private jet, but Judge Villar sustained Przelomiec ’s relevancy objection and Tacopina moved into questions about Relli’s testimony regarding Rocky not paying for their friend’s body to be flown home. Relli said he didn’t know for sure if Rocky didn’t pay for it, but he later learned Rocky paid for the friend’s funeral.
“But that has nothing to do with a shooting. I got shot,” Relli told Tacopina.
“I don’t care. What I said is what I said, I already wrote the text,” Relli continued, referring to his text to Rocky that began, “You so fucking fake it’s sad.”
“Your feelings of animosity were misplaced,” Tacopina said.
“They wasn’t misplaced,” Relli answered sharply.
Relli and Tacopina’s relations deteriorated as the exam continued.
Relli pushed back on Tacopina’s inference that he was jealous of Rocky’s fame and vengeful because Rocky had backed out of supporting his projects.
“He got put in a good position through A$AP. So everybody’s looking at Rocky like he got the answers,” Relli said, adding that he was “trying to find other avenues.”
“You testified that Rocky made you open-ended promises?” Tacopina said.
“No, I’m testifying because I got shot,” Relli answered.
Relli said one broken promise from Rocky was that he’d support his label, and “I even met him in L.A. and had my artists flew out.”
He later told Tacpoina, “You trying to confuse me, and I got shot, bro.”
Tacopina asked him which guns he owns and Relli replied, “That’s none of your business.”
“A couple handguns, a semiautomatic. I don’t know. A bunch of shit,” Relli answered. He said he carries a gun regularly “ever since I got shot” but wasn’t armed when Rocky shot him. Asked why he didn’t immediately report the shooting, Relli said he had needed time to “figure it out.”
“Rocky’s a big person,” Relli testified.
Tacopina pressed Relli about returning to the scene of the shooting to retrieve shell casings. Relli told police he did so at the direction of his lawyer, but Tacopina said Relli’s phone records show he didn’t contact his first lawyer until after he retrieved the shell casings.
“None of this really matters,” Relli said.
“Well, when you become the judge I’ll be concerned about what you think matters,” Tacopina retorted.
Tacopina also displayed a text message Rocky sent Relli after the shooting that asked, “Relli wtf is u talk bout?? why u telling ppl I shot at u.”
Tacopina also questioned Relli about texting Rocky’s manager that he’s “getting rich.” He was referring to a text Relli sent that said, “I’m get itch.” Relli said he meant “irritated” instead of itch.
The prosecutor clarified to Judge Villar, “He never used the word rich.”
Relli glared at Tacopoina during the exchange. “Tough guy,” he said. The judge told him to stop.
The situation worsened when Tacopina started questioning Relli about following Rocky after Rocky initially pointed a gun at him.
“I thought it was a white flag situation, meaning everything was neutral,” Relli said. He repeatedly told Tacopina, “I would never be scared of Rocky.”
“I understand how tough you are,” Tacopina said.
“It’s not about being tough. You’re just paid to be here. Me and this man known each other for years. I’m not scared of him,” Relli retorted.
Relli later said Rocky hasn’t helped A$AP Illz, whom Relli said currently is a homeless crackhead.
“What are you doing for Illz right now? Tacopina asked Relli.
Judge Villar told Relli not to answer after sustaining Przelomiec’s relevancy objection.
“I’m not the one who could put people on,” Relli said anyway, referring to Rocky and his wealth.
Tacopina said Relli is clearly jealous of Rocky, but Relli said, “No, not at all.”
“In many text messages I still said I love him and that's my brother,” Relli said. But he reiterated that he took issue with Rocky’s treatment of his fellow A$AP members.
“I feel like since I’ve known him before A$AP was even a thing, I can voice my opinion,” Relli said.
Relli texts Rocky, ‘U should’ve killed me’
In re-direct exam, Przelomiec revealed the full context of the text messages.
Before Rocky texted Relli asking, “Relli wuf iz u talkin bout??? Why u tellin ppl i shot at u”, Relli texted Rocky telling him he “tried killing me.”
“U should’ve killed me,” Relli told Rocky in another text.
Judge Villar ended court about 3:30 p.m. after Relli finished testifying. The Nov. 20 hearing date is expected to be the final date.
Rocky arrived and left the courthouse in good spirits. He shook my hand in the hallway before the hearing and told me, “Love the work. love the work.” He later told me he appreciates my “old school journalism” and that no one told him to say that. Tacopina, who was once on a reality TV show with Tory Lanez’s post-conviction lawyer Jose Baez, was kind, too.
But of course, none of that matters in the courtroom, where I think it’s safe to say they got pretty cooked on Wednesday. Remember: This is NOT a trial. Judge Villar is not deciding if Rocky is guilty. She’s deciding if prosecutors have enough evidence to proceed with their case against him. And after Relli’s testimony, I don’t see how she could possibly find that they don’t.
I expect we’ll hear from a law enforcement witness on Nov. 20, and I don’t see how it doesn’t get worse for Rocky. I’m not sure what Tacopina’s overall defense is — self-defense, shooting never happened? — but Relli is a solid witness. The discrepancies Tacopina focused on regarding whether a lawyer told him to retrieve the shell casings don’t seem big. The videos don’t show everything up close, but they also clearly show a confrontation.
Barrel-chested Tacopina’s pugnacious approach absolutely will not sway Judge Villar, who appears to be an excellent jurist who is focused on the facts and the law. (What a concept!) She’s a UCLA School of Law graduate who’s been on the bench since 2006, and she said Wednesday that she’s been hearing long-cause criminal cases for 12 years. She handled the hearing really well, including starting on time and regulating when necessary.
I don’t know if Judge Villar will be the trial judge (I think it’ll get re-assigned after the preliminary), but I hope she is because she let journalists use our laptops for note-taking purposes on Wednesday. Thank you, Judge Villar!
Stay tuned for more overage on Nov. 20, and tune into my YouTube live tomorrow at 11 a.m . PST / 2 p.m. EST.
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