A$AP Rocky says 'Don't say it' to key defense witness during cross-exam
Rocky's friend Jamel "A$AP Twelvvy" Phillips testified that alleged shooting victim Terell "Relli" Ephron was the aggressor and that Rocky fired a prop gun as a warning.
The key defense witness in rapper Rakim “A$AP Rocky” Mayers’s gun assault trial had been testifying for about 2 ½ hours when the rapper interjected from the defense table.
“Don’t say it,” Rocky said as his longtime friend and fellow rapper Jamel “A$AP Twelvvy” Phillips answered questions in cross-examination.
The rare interruption in front of the jury wasn’t about the testimony that brought Twelvvy from New York to Los Angeles to testify. He had already told jurors about the night Rocky fired shots during an altercation in Hollywood with Terell “A$AP Relli” Ephron, and he already testified that Rocky fired a fake gun only as warning because Relli attacked their friend.
Instead, the interjection followed Los Angeles County Deputy District Attorney John Lewin referencing an item in a photo of Rocky’s former West Hollywood bedroom that promoted his company AWGE. The prosecutor asked Twelvvy, “What does A-W-G-E mean?” when Rocky spoke up from the defense table.
His “Don’t say it” command is best explained on AWGE’s website, which describes it as a creative agency with two rules: 1) “Never reveal what AWGE means” 2) “When in doubt always refer to rule #1”.
Jurors didn’t hear about the rules on Friday, but they heard Lewin question Twelvvy about Rocky’s interruption as the prosecutor worked to discredit his testimony that Rocky carries prop guns instead of real guns.
“I heard something. I’m not too sure what I heard. I was listening to you,” Twelvvy said.
Twelvvy is to return to the witness stand on Monday.
The 35-year-old Harlem, New York, native is the first witness to tell jurors that Rocky carried a prop gun when he met Relli on Nov. 6, 2021, and ended up firing two shots. He testified that he saw Rocky with a prop gun on three occasions, including during the video shoot for Rocky’s song “D.M.B.”
He said they were in Long Beach, Calif., preparing for the following day’s ComplexCon festival when Rocky learned Relli was “disgracing his name, running his name through the mud” so he went “to go holler at Relli.”
He and Illijah “A$AP Illz” Ulanga rode with Rocky and Rocky’s driver to Argyle Avenue between Hollywood Boulevard and Selma Avenue in Hollywood, got out of the car, and “I just see Relli coming down the hill with a little extra momentum.”
Twelvvy testified that Relli “just as soon as he seen him just grabbed” Rocky.
“Relli’s kind of a big dude. He’s kind of like, grabbing him and shaking him, so at this point Rocky tries to, like, I guess grab him too, but grab so he can maintain his balance because Relli is kind of trying to lift him up by his hoodie,” Twelvvy testified.
Twelvvy said he was “surprised” to see the fight “because from my understanding, these dudes was only suppose to have a conversation.”
Rocky’s lawyer Joe Tacopina played surveillance video of the initial confrontation in which Rocky holds what appears to be a gun behind his back.
“In that small clip there, do you see Rocky holding an object that looks like a firearm?” Tacopina asked.
“Yes,” Twelvvy answered.
“And what was that, in fact?” Tacopina asked.
“That was his prop,” Twelvvy answered.
Twelvvy said Rocky pulled the gun after Relli grabbed him and his pants began to fall down. Rocky, who is right-handed, held the gun in his left hand. Rellli told Rocky to “shoot that fake-ass gun,” Twelvvy testified.
Twelvvy said he “stepped in the middle and tried to break it up.”
“Also I was trying to tell Rocky to go,” Twelvvy testified.
“Who was the aggressor in this encounter?” Tacopina asked.
“Relli,” Twelvvy answered.
“Did you ever see Rocky point that object, just a prop gun according to you, at Relli at all during that parking garage encounter?”
“No,” Twelvvy answered.
Did you ever see Rocky press a gun — a prop gun that you have described here — at Relli’s stomach or point it at his head or chest?” Tacopina asked.
“No, I did not,” Twelvvy answered.
“Would you have seen that if it happened?” Tacopina asked.
“Yes. I was there,” Twelvvy answered.
Twelvvy also testified that he didn’t display a knife like Relli said.
Twelvvy said he told Rocky and Illz, “We out.”
“It’s time for us to go. We can’t conversate with our brother right now,” Twelvvy said, referring to Relli. “Maybe we can conversate with him later. Let’s go.”
Relli followed them, Twelvvy testified, and “was yelling out obscenities.” Relli called Illz “a crackhead” and told Twelvvy he lived in the projects and bragged about his possessions to Rocky and said he didn’t need him.
“I didn’t understand why his energy was so, like, violent and things like that,” Twelvvy said. Twelvvy testified he was scared and felt threatened. He said he worked out with Relli a few times that year “and I knew he was stronger than me.” As Relli followed them, “Illz is trying to calm Relli down.”
“I guess it’s not working. So I guess we walk a few more feet, and then I just, I hear like fast steps so I turn around and I see Rell hit Illz,” Twelvvy testified.
He said Relli hit Illz “at least, like, twice.”
“After the second hit, Rell tried to hit me and I moved, and then Relli hit Illz again and that’s when Rocky shot down with the prop gun to scare Relli off. It didn’t scare Relli off. Relli was still hitting Illz,” Twelvvy testified.
Twelvvy said he heard Rocky fire a second shot, then he ran after Rocky as he fled the area.
Relli said a bullet grazed his knuckles, but Rocky’s lawyer says he scrapped them on the ground.
Lewin began his cross-examination by asking Twelvvy if he considers himself to be an unbiased witness.
“Yes,” Twelvvy answered.
“So is it your position that if the defendant committed these crimes and it’s proved beyond a reasonable doubt, that you want to see him convicted?” Lewin asked.
“I was there. I know the defendant didn’t commit these crimes,” Twelvvy answered.
Superior Court Judge Mark S. Arnold interjected.
“That’s not the question he asked you. It’s a yes or no question. Listen to the question again and answer the question,” the judge said.
Lewin tried again.
“I want you to assume for a moment that the evidence in the case demonstrates that the defendant is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt,” Lewin asked. “If that’s the case, isn’t it true that you don’t want him convicted?
“I can’t really answer a hypothetical question,” Twelvvy said.
Lewin moved into questions about Rocky’s and his partner Rihanna’s power in the music industry and his influence on Twelvvy’s life and career. He asked if Rocky could “make a couple phone calls” and “significantly affect” Twelvvy’s career if he’s unhappy with his testimony. Twelvvy answered “no” and said he could “go by another artist’s name tomorrow and start over.”
“I could be a painter. I could go sew and be a designer and still be able to live my life,” Twelvvy testified.
Lewin also showed Twelvvy video of Illz the day after the shooting.
“I want you to yell ‘Stop!’ when you see any evidence that he has the kind of injuries that you would expect when someone's been punched three times in the face by a muscular, strong individual,” Lewin said.
Twelvvy said Illz intentionally wore an American flag over his head to head his bruises and “you can’t see his whole face.”
Twelvvy also told Lewin that Rocky usually wore the flag because it’s part of his project, “You feel me?”
“Just so you understand, whether I feel you or not, I can't respond to your comments. When you're answering a question, when you’re repeatedly saying ‘You feel me?,’ you understand I can’t respond to that?” Lewin asked.
“I won’t say ‘you feel me’ anymore,” Twelvvy answered.
Lewin violated his stated rule later in the exam when showing Twelvvy photos from the police raid at Rocky’s West Hollywood home in April 2022.
“You’ve never been to Rocky’s crib. He has some like these cool-looking couches that look futuristic,” Twelvvy told Lewin.
“I have not been there,” Lewin commented.
Police found a .44 magnum, a rifle and a shotgun next to Rocky’s bed, as well as a 9 mm magazine inside the home, but Twelvvy testified that Rocky kept prop guns for self defense to thwart home invaders.
“The prop gun looks and sounds like a real gun. So I feel like if somebody breaking into your home and they see you make a gesture to protect your home they might note even shoot you, they might just leave,” Twelvvy testified.
“Can you explain to me if Relli knew it was a prop gun, how pulling out a prop gun that Relli knows is fake is going to act as a deterrent to anything?” Lewin asked.
“The sound,” Twelvvy answered.
“The sound?” Lewin asked.
“Yes, the sound,” Twelvvy answered. Twelvvy said the sound would be “so loud, you would think it was a real gunshot and you would move away.”
Lewin reminded Twelvvy that he testified Relli knew Rocky's gun was fake and told him something like, “Put that fake shit away.”
“If he knows it’s a fake gun, how is that going to deter him from anything?” Lewin asked.
Judge Arnold sustained a defense objection for speculation.
That’s when Lewin displayed a photo of Rocky’s bedroom with an AWGE towel visible at the foot of the bed.
“What does A-W-G-E mean?” Lewin asked, pronouncing each letter.
“AWGE,” Twelvvy answered, pronouncing the word.
After Rocky said, “Don’t say it,” Twelvvy said, “AWGE” again and Lewin asked, “What does that mean? Does that mean something?”
“It means AWGE,” Twelvvy answered.
“OK. Have you — what’s that term from?” Lewin asked.
Tacopina objected for relevance. Judge Arnold, apparently unaware of Rocky’s comment, asked Twelvvy, “Do you know what that means?”
“No. I just know it’s AWGE,” Twelvvy answered.
“Do you know what the letters mean?” the judge asked.
“I don’t know, I could have my own way,” Twelvvy said as the judge interjected again.
“You don’t know for sure?” Arnold asked.
“No,” Twelvvy answered.
“It’s speculation,” the judge said. Lewin and Tacopina asked for a sidebar, and Lewin questioned Twelvvy about Rocky’s comment when testimony resumed three minutes later.
He reminded Twelvvy he was asked what AWGE means and Twelvvy said he “has no idea.”
“Did you hear the defendant when I asked the question loudly say, ‘Don’t answer,’?”
That's when Twelvvy said, “I heard something. I’m not too sure what I heard. I was listening to you.”
“Did you hear somebody say, ‘Don’t answer that,’?” Lewin asked.
“I didn’t hear what was said — except I heard something,” Twelvvy answered.
“Isn’t it true that AWGE — A-W-G-E — is a brand that’s connected with the defendant?” Lewin asked.
“Yes,” Twelvvy answered.
“So a moment ago when I asked what AWGE was and you said you had no idea, why did you say that when you’re now saying, ‘Yes, it’s a brand connected with the defendant,’?” Lewin asked.
Judge Arnold sustained an objection for misstating the testimony and Lewin tried again.
“Did you a moment ago testify that you did not know what AWGE was when I asked you?” Lewin asked.
“You asked me what did the acronym mean,” Twelvvy said.
“No, I never,” Lewin said as Judge Arnold interjected, “Don’t start debating each other.”
“I asked you ‘What does AWGE mean?’ and you said you have no idea. Do you recall that?” Lewin asked.
“I know what ASAP means. I don't know what AWGE means,” Twelvvy answered. (ASAP is a collective of artists and stands for Always Strive And Prosper.)
Judge Arnold said, “This issue is completed” and recessed court for the lunch break.
Video of Rocky’s comment received broad attention online, including from defense witness Wally Sajimi, a website developer and consultant who shared a post about it in his Instagram stories.
Sajimi testified last Monday. His direct-exam was meant to verify the authenticity of recordings between himself and Relli that Relli testified were fake.
Rocky’s lawyers hope Sajimi’s testimony will help cast Relli as a liar whose testimony that Rocky shot him can’t be trusted. But, in addition to talking about money and his lawsuit, Sajimi’s recordings also include Relli discussing what happened the night Rocky fired shots and what he’s done to try to be compensated.
Lewin cross-examined Sajimi for two hours while playing clips from the recordings which the defense apparently gave to prosecutors after notifying them that Sajimi would testify. Sajimi told Lewin he can’t recall what Rocky told him about the shooting, including whether he used a prop gun.
Rocky’s “Don’t say it” comment wasn’t the first time he’s spoken in front of the jury.
During Tacopina’s cross-exam of Relli, Tacopina questioned Relli about a text message in which Relli told a friend, “I want to get that n****’s money.” Tacopina said the full word when asking Relli if he meant Rocky, and referenced Rocky sitting at the defense table.
Rocky spoke up moments later.
“Your Honor, can we refrain,” Rocky said as Judge Arnold cut him off and told him to talk to his lawyer Chad Seigel, Tacopina’s law partner who was seated next to him.
Later in the day, Judge Arnold told the attorneys, “If there’s an exhibit or any recording that has the n-word, I want you to say ‘n-word.’”
Rocky also spoke up last Tuesday after the jury left the courtroom, following prosecutors entering several photos of his West Hollywood home as evidence.
“You Honor, can I say something on the record? Usually my house is not that junky. Let’s be clear. You know what I’m saying?” Rocky said.
“That puts a whole new light on things,” the judge said.
Rocky, 36, has been nominated for three Grammys and is a co-chair of this year's Met Gala. He has two young sons with Rihanna, who has been in the courtroom watching the trial with Rocky's mother and, usually, his sister. The couple left the Clara Shortridge Foltz Courthouse in downtown Los Angeles holding hands on Friday. Rihanna also walked through the hallway arm and arm with Rocky during a break while jurors sat sat on the hallway benches.
Rocky faces a maximum of 24 years in prison if convicted of either count of first-degree assault with a semiautomatic firearm. Prosecutors first said they'll recommend a 10- to 12-year sentence, then said last week it'll be eight to 10 years.
Judge to hold post-trial sanctions hearing
Judge Arnold on Friday implemented a new system to try to address the frequent squabbles between Lewin and Tacopina. Before the jury arrived, Arnold told the attorneys he'll track their squabbles and outbursts and impose sanctions of up to $1,500, to be finalized at a hearing after the trial.
"I've actually never had to do this, but I'm going to do it," said Arnold, Los Angeles County Superior Court judge since 1998 and a former deputy district attorney.
“I’m not pointing any fingers at anybody in particular. What I’m going to say applies to everybody at the counsel table. There have been repeated speaking objections, arguing with witnesses that has occurred. Arguing amongst counsel, snide comments made from one counsel to another, arguing a decision of mine,” the judge said. “That’s not going to happen. If it does, I’m going to invoke [California Code of Civil Procedure] 177.5 which allows for monetary sanctions up to $1,500 for each time.”
Closing arguments expected early this week
Trial resumes Monday at 10 a.m. PST.
After the jury left on Friday, Judge Arnold told Lewin he has 90 more minutes to cross-examine Twelvvy. Lewin questioned Twelvvy for about two hours and 40 minutes on Friday.
“I’ve got an ethical duty to actually effectively prosecute this case,” he told the judge.
“Right. And you’re going to have to do it in 90 minutes,” Arnold said.
Lewin said the defense crossed Relli for three days and “asked him question after question about his income, about more relevancies than I can add up.”
“I’m going through video where the witness is impeaching himself left and right on the central issues in this case, and the court is saying, ‘You’ve got to hurry up,’” Lewin said.
“Your Honor. We have to be able to do our job. I’m not wasting time by asking questions that are getting important information, and when the court didn’t limit them at all, this witness is as important as the victim,” Lewin continued.
Judge Arnold said Relli’s cross took three days “because he was so uncooperative and he would not answer a question.”
“This witness is answering questions. Over four hours is enough. You have 90 minutes remaining. Just use your time wisely. That’s it: 90 minutes. That’s an hour and a half more,” the judge said. “I’m sure you can get it done in that.”
Tacopina will question Twelvvy in re-cross, then Lewin can question him in re-direct. Rocky’s tour manager Lou Levin is expected to testify after Twelvvy. It's unclear if Rocky will take the stand, but I think there's a good chance he will.
I’ll stream live on my YouTube channel. You can find many videos of the trial on my channel as well as my TikTok page. I also share clips on Instagram.
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